I am looking at two possible upgrades for my SVHS cam. The Sony VX-2000 & the Canon XL-1 both fit my budget. I probably do as much work on a steadicam as I do on a tripod with only a small percentage hand held shooting. I would like DV-in/out.
Which cam would YOU recommend I buy and why?
Both give excellent picture quality.
The VX2000 is very nicely balanced though, while the XL1 and XL1S... well... isn't.
My suggestion would be to feel them both out before spending money. In my opinion, the VX2000 handles like a dream, but I find the XL1 awkward and clumsy.
Both have DV-in.
Technically, both VX2000 and XL1S have analogue in, but it's better implemented on the Sony. The VX2000 will simply detect an incoming analogue signal and be ready to record it to DV tape or channel it out directly via FireWire. The XL1S won't identify or display an incoming analogue AV signal until you press rec/pause. This means the camcorder can't be used as a direct AV to DV converter in the same way as the VX2000.
Hope this helps,
Pete
I should add that Peter's review - kicking nine kinds of c**p out of the XL1S - is in the January issue - which should be in store no later than Friday.
The review also has a substantial boxout written by Sue Farrants, of Fox Video, giving a pro camera operator's take on the XL1S, and she's no kinder to it than Peter.
The real bottom line, in my view, is that you'd only buy an XL1 to impress ignorant friends or if you already had a substantial number of Eos lenses that you wanted to use on it for wildlife or covert surveillance!
Bob C
[This message has been edited by bcrabtree (edited 09 January 2002).]
My brother owns a VX2000 and I have many videos filmed with a XL1 and there is a difference in picture quality. The vx2000 gives an extremely lifelike colour accurate picture but the XL1 seems to give a different type of quality. I dont really know how to describe it but the XL1 gives a movie type quality and cant even touch the vx2000 on shooting low light/night.
james f
Thank you all for your feedback.
I will order a copy of CV this month and read the review. Thanks Bob. Seems like the Sony sounds more the biz, but I will try them both before parting with the green stuff.
Just to re-iterate Bob's point, We needed a second camera to supplement our DSR500WS, Sue (Sue Farrants as mentioned, for those who dont know us) chose the VX2K.
We've now done two, two camera shoots with the DSR500 and VK2K and the mixed footage on the edit master is very impressive.
------------------
Dave Farrants
Producer/Editor
Fox Video Productions
ignorant
The Xl1 is a great piece of kit (dunno about XL1/s)
this battle between the xl1 and the vx2000
is an age old battle like mac/pc and premiere/mediastudio etc
The Xl1 is proven to give better skin tones than the sony,it has a better lens than the sony and its audio circuits are better than even some of the bigger pro cams.One downfall i find the preset white balance to be bloody awful, you have to set it manually( i hope we all do that)
But one thing must be remembered the XL1 is NOT a point and shoot camera, it needs to be set up and you need to learn to use it properly. If you want to point and shoot get a VX2000.
seriously though try them both out.
Hand held with this cam is supposed to be awkward and horrible i actually prefer it to a shoulder cam. Why?
well because it is supported mainly with your arms and just leans against your shoulder you can contort your body a lot more than if it was actually sitting on that bony collar bone by your shoulder.
you do need to get used to though
( i did an eight hour shoot handheld one and it turned out damm well)
I have to agree with Mad-Mardy the XL1 is an excellant camera prvided you take the time to learn how to use propertly. I posted similiar complaints as others when I first purchased, but with determination and excepting that I was handling a complex item of equipment I am now a very satisfied user.
Taking all on board that you have said, I was looking at prices and I see ASK Electronics sell the Sony for £1871 & the Canon for £2350 plus Vat of course.
That is almost £500 more for the Canon.
Following the debate, it seems the Sony is better value for money.
I have had an XL1 for 2 years now.
In my opinion the camera was great to start off with, then after a while you start to notice the cruddy side to it.
1. Balance is crap, its imposible to hold the damn thing still, must be mounted on a tripod at all times otherwise even the steadiest (and I am very steady) of cameramen look shakey as hell.
2. Servo lens is s**t, even focusing manually is an art in itself, not to mention the motor noise.
3. Low light is awfull.
4. Colour viewfinders don't last five minutes and cost a lot to replace.
5. Cost. For what it is it should only cost about £1995 inc VAT.
It does look pretty cool though dosn't it ?
As for the Sony, I looked at a XV1000 before I went for the Canon, but decided against as it had the build quality of a Pixal Vission. I got the impression there was no di-cast metal body underneath all that plastic (just more crappy plastic).
I don't know if the VX2000 is built any better, maybe Dave Farrents of Pete Wells could inform me of its build quality.
After all that, When finances allow, I think I will take Dave Farrents advice and buy a Sony DSR500 (after checking out the plasticness of course).
Hope this helps.
P.S. If you want to buy my XL1 complete with MA100 and other accesories, its yours for £1500.
Great training in Camera work using the XL1. I pride myself on having conquered it. I know all it`s quirks,but, I also know how to get the best out of it.I have had my Xl1 now for over 21/2 years, used it for about 1500 hours. Yes it is a top notch lens (pity mine seems to have some foreign object inside).
For the balance problem I have made a rifle type mount using a Manfrotto telephoto lens mount and The remains of an old tripod complete with a remote control Gizmo that I bought at DMW last year. The Vx2000 I cannot comment on as I have not used it. Despite the bad press I like my XL1. tried tested and trusted friend.
quote
"its imposible to hold the damn thing still, must be mounted on a tripod at all times otherwise even the steadiest (and I am very steady) of cameramen look shakey as hell."
Sorry to be blunt but
RUBBISH
and i can show you a ton of stuff done handheld and even a demo if you like
it is possible to hold this cam rock solid.
Great thread guys, but why wasn't this posted in the A/V section huh? Me? I'd have the VX2k because the EOS lens interchangeability is not a starter really. And the 3x zoom - costing the same as a TRV30 - doesn't even have steadyshot.
tom.
I to must rubbish the not able to hold steady comments. For the type of use I put the XL1 to you need a reasonably portable camera that you can push on to the shoulder (even without shoulder extension) for reasonably stable pictures, this is where in my opinion the XL1 scores well above the rest. Try doing this when your knackered with the Sony without support. At the end of the day the words horses for courses come to mind.
Hi everyone,
Thanks for your inputs.
I am going to look and handle both cams, but on balance I think I am leaning towards the Sony. Tom, thank you for your post. I apologise for starting this thread in the wrong section - I am quite new to message boards. I have found all your comments very helpful. I visited my local Sony Centre this weekend to see the VX2000 but was told that this was a "professional" product and they did not stock it. Now they are going to see if they can find one for me to try.
The best prices I have seen are from ASK Electronics. Does anyone know of a supplier who also has keen prices but also offers after sales care?
Professional or not, you'd expect to find it in a Sony store wouldn't you?
Wavey.