I thought you had to register to be able to post to this forum. I have just noticed that Beethoven shows as unregistered. Is this just a glitch in the system or is he getting in through some back door?
Either way can somebody change the locks and keep him out ??
------------------
Regards
Keith
I think you will find his last post was the 18th, just before he was banned.
Now he is banned his profile shows him as unregistered. Err, actually he has no profile.
Is this correct Bob?
GG
[This message has been edited by GG (edited 20 June 2002).]
Yup, Guido's got it right.
Bob C
He may well have done but a certain mhp registered June 02 has appeared today.
I wonder who that could be.
This really is getting silly now.
What are the chances of Mozart appearing next?
SIFI
If mhp, or MhP or MHP or mHP or Mhp come on again, I'll report him to his ISP for abuse, and see how much he likes that.
Bob C
I never thought I would actually be glad to see somebody banned from this forum but for Beethoven I'll make an exception. He hardly ever made any constructive comment.
------------------
Regards
Keith
Get a life!
Barry Hunter
Videos for all Occasions
quote:Originally posted by Barry Hunter:
Get a life!Barry Hunter
Videos for all Occasions
Most of us have one Barry 
Thank you for your concern Barry but I already had a pleasant life. It just got better after the news about Beethoven!!
------------------
Regards
Keith
quote:Originally posted by Barry Hunter:
Get a life!Barry Hunter
Videos for all Occasions
That's just having a pop! If you disagree with what's been said tell us why. It's too easy to have a dig.
I would have thought that after the posts this week where members have spent most of their time bitching about different other members, that we`d all had more than enough.But, no, there will always the bootlickers who will go running to teacher telling tales.
BC is I`m sure quite capable of investigating who is on the board and has already prooved that.
By starting posts such as this one, all that is happening is stirring up trouble!
By all means stand up for yourself against bullys but let`s stop the pettiness & use the board for it`s intentions!
Barry Hunter
Videos for all Occasions
Here, here, Barry.
So, what say you people, do I cull Barry and Eddie?
Cos, in my view, with them gone, that would be all of the ignorant, rude folk gone.
Say if you want to keep them in, though, cos the deed will be done by the end of the weekend unless I see some support for them staying around.
Bob C
Get rid of them.....their postings are not what this forum is all about.
Why oh why do some of the contributors have to resort to vitriol to labour a point because the shame of it is that at times their contributions are of some use.
Having made that point, BHoven advised me of a small Mouse Speed download for a Mac - that didn`t work........
Ron.
Why oh why do some of the contributors have to resort to vitriol to labour a point because the shame of it is that at times their contributions are of some use.
Having made that point, BHoven advised me of a small Mouse Speed download for a Mac - that didn`t work........ 
Ron.
Eddie is a dead cert. He is most likely mhP. If he isn't mhP he is very close to him and brings nothing but trouble to these boards.
Barry can be quite abusive but I don't think he's gone too far. Compared to Beethoven, mhP and Eddie he is an angel and I think banning him would be harsh.
SIFI
Might I know what it was that got Beethoven banned? I seem to have missed that one and laying it out might just tell others (me included) what's acceptable and what's not.
I think sometimes people reach for the "reply" button before calming themselves. It's easily done; I do it with the wife all the time.
tom.
Tom,
Go to this thread in Chatter: http://www.dvdoctor.net/cgi-bin/ubb/Forum29/HTML/000579.html
...and look for the link in Gary's post. When you've opened the link scroll down to Beethoven's reply.
Chirpy.
P.S. I may be wrong, but I firmly believe Eddie Edwardes is Mike Henson.
My original posting was a simple enquiry when I saw a posting with 'unregistered' against it. I did not know at that time that Beethoven had been kicked out although I have made no secret of the fact that I will shed no tears over it.
Barry has different views to me on this one but I don't seen any reason why that should get him banned.
Surely we are all entitled to have opinions, strong opinions at times. As long as the majority of our postings are providing a positive contribution can't we just live with each other??
------------------
Regards
Keith
Bob-
If you kick off Barry, I would seriously consider leaving in protest.
A bit of earthy language never hurt anybody, and at least Barry talks good sense with obvious valid experience; which is more than I can say for many of the other contributors to these pages!
I really didn't want to contribute to this subject - but like some others I find it a little bit compulsory.
Have I heard right? you are thinking of banning 2 people because of the comments 'get a life' & 'here here'. In which case 'get..... oops, please forgive me I am being stupid - hang on no one likes stupid people - doesn't that sound like some sort of prejudice - in years to come it won't be politically correct to make fun of people like myself - being clever or not does not make you or me bad people. So lets just have a bit of live & let live, and when you see someone trying to cross the road, help them with their load but don't go mistaking paradise for that house across the street - hmmm wonder who wrote that. And as far as fox hunting goes - I've never been a big fan of self publicity. Also on a side note if you want to ban something - my preference would be any reference to poster's business or commercial web site being mentioned or in their signature unless it is relevant to a posting, that way you would stop anyone using this Board primarily for personal gain. Other things - well don't all jump on to people because they may have made an incorrect choice of comment - just ignore, or politely pull them up on it without going overboard. I am thankful for this Board and its help in the past, but lets not alienate possible new members or any form of contribution - I for one do not usually make any comments, but that does not mean I don't appreciate the freely given advice of others. I think some people are put off making a query, because they may get SHOUTED at if they put their query in capitals, or put it in the wrong section, or did not do a full search first, or really should know, or, or, get the picture. Now as I said, if you don't like my comments - just ignore them.
I'm with Perry on this one.
the only one with any valid postings has been barry hunter .......
mhp / eddie edwardes spend their time stirring trouble , which i find weird for two employees of what claims to be a large multimedia business.
in mhp / eddie's case he/they have been banned at least once before.
beeethoven just didn't know when to stop commenting or poking at certain people.
Bob
I'm not sure why comment's such as Barry's below are deserving of expulsion. I've come late to this debate, so may have missed something. Please could someone explain.
quote:Originally posted by Barry Hunter:
...let`s stop the pettiness & use the board for it`s intentions!
Barry Hunter
Videos for all Occasions
quote:Originally posted by Chris Lovell:
BobI'm not sure why comment's such as Barry's below are deserving of expulsion. I've come late to this debate, so may have missed something. Please could someone explain.
read one of his comments higher up this thread ' get a life '.
it came at an inoportune time.
Bob, I don't know all the facts but I'm wondering if the offensive posts by Beethoven and the way Mhp dug himself into a hole against you this week has took it's toll on your patience with some of us.
To get banned or threatened with a ban I feel should be applied to only those who either verbally abuse us/you/CV Staff or those who belittle the same.
I don't know why you're considering a Barry Hunter ban.
The magazine and this board are too important for a few members to lower it's place.
Billy Ellwood
I don't know anything about Eddie but I've found many of Barry's posts very useful indeed. And he was helpful enough to make himself available for a phone call to take the technical issue further.
If people start being pushed off the board for critical comments or for being slightly more robust in their language than other members, I, for one, would regard it as a very retrograde step.
Roy Esmonde
I really should have added that I think this is a terrific board and I appreciate the generosity of Bob Crabtree and Computer Video Magazine in making it available.
Roy Esmonde
I'm in danger of sounding like the president of Barry's fan club here but what the hell.
I have just done a search on Barry's contributions to this forum and then checked various entries at random. I checked through around 20 out of around 130 topics. In only one of those did I find anything that could be construed as offensive and in that instance Barry had beaten me by saying something I was thinking!
One or two, depending on your interpretation could be considered to be taking a pop at CV or simply asking for reviews. That is 3 responses, not 3 threads. In the 2 instances where comments are open to interpretation other comments in the same threads are positive.
That leaves 17, or 85%, where IMHO the contributions have been at least neutral and in most instances extremely valuable.
Kicking out somebody with that background would not seem to be in the best interest of this board.
------------------
Regards
Keith
Just to say that the reason WHY I asked the question was so that people could make the sorts of comments they've been making here - to better inform any decision I take.
What people think is very clear, and, naturally, I'll be acting upon those views.
Bob C
I have purposly stayed clear of posting anything further on this thread to allow members to air their views!
I thank everyone, whatever view expressed, for taking the time to do so.
A bit like the famous quote that goes something like, I disagree with the viewpoint, BUT, I will fight for the right to express it.
I don`t give in to bullying, been there as a child, thats why I joined the forces at 15!Never have done, never will!
I feel it only right to inform of the "History" behind BC`s lack of patience with me.
That goes back to almost my first post following an article last November when I questioned the opening scream of that issue.
BC, proceeded to rip my post to shreds & subject it to sarcasim of the lowest form.
I responded by posting a thread "A poke in the eye" and understandably, BC wasn`t best pleased.
On another thread, someone commented that this was "Bob`s" forum, and that he should be able to do as he wished. I was under the impression that it was run by CV magazine and that BC, was the main moderator and employed by them! Of course there have to be rules and someone has to be in charge, but I consider it wrong for all if democracy is challenged.
I have supported BC`s view on more than one occasion, check the post`s.
Should I be banned, I will continue to "Lurk" but will not bother to post under a cloak, although it is not that difficult to hide your presence of your IP.
Should this be my last posting, anyone who wishes to email me for any help that I may be able to give is most welcome to do so.
Barry Hunter
Videos for all Occasions
From time to time, we all say things on the spur of the moment which we later regret. It is even easier on the "Net" when we can just write things but get no personal reaction other than a reply posting.
It can become an "irresistable force meets immoveable object" situation.
I feel sure that I must have crossed swords with Barry at some point in time but I'm damned if I can remember what it was about, and isn't that the point?
One of the major drawbacks of a superb web-board such as CV's is that there all levels of experience contributing and there can become a culture of superiority by the "knows" (knowalls?) to the "Don't knows" which verges on disrespect.
Personally, I do not believe in capital punishment and I would not wish for any contributor to be culled.
Perhaps, CV and its moderators should draw up a code of conduct regarding what is acceptable/unacceptable and e-mail to all contributors to this board.
May I start by formulating clause no. 1, viz.
1. No matter how much you know, there is someone who knows more. No matter how little you know, there is someone who knows less. Where you place yourself on the ladder of knowledge displays your respect for your fellow contributor.
Gawd, does that sound humble, or is it pompous? - You judge!
Cheers, Alan
i agree on the "spur of the moment" thing i do it all the time cos i`m too impatient.so i spend more time apologising than being constructive. so lets have a "code of conduct" please! whats the old saying "least said soonest mended" ?
"the more i learn
the more i realise
how little i know"
Peter................
That original 'poke in the eye' of yours is still there for everyone to see Barry and has not been deleted. If Bob was going to ban you for that he would have done so there and then.
That post was riposte enough. He's probably looking to avoid another situation where one member continually resurrects an old argument forever and a day. Just recently someone admitted they had been going on at him since 1997!
Let sleeping dogs lie and just continue to make the informative posts that we all know you can do.
To me it's that simple.
Errr, excuse me, but could someone tell me exactly why it is that I'm being barred and why this has become a matter of public discussion?
I've just done a search to double check and I can't see where I've made any comments that infringe the terms and conditions of this board; so why am I becoming the target of a witch hunt?
I can't answer that one Eddie. As I have said in my postings, and I'm only getting involved because it appears that my question stirred up a hornets' nest, I can see no reason for Barry being excluded either. I don't recall any postings from you either good or otherwise so can't comments.
------------------
Regards
Keith
As I've said before, this board is a good one, very informative and one of the most "mature" around, in that, compared with many other BBs the amount of slagging off that goes on is minimal.
Personally I'm of the opinion that no-one should be banned for speaking their mind so, Bob, my answer is no, don't ban Barry and Eddie.
The only thime I think active moderation needs to occur is if the subject involves nasty/illegal elements or offensive preaching, examples might include paedophillia, racism & religious/anti-semetic rants (in which case ban them immediately and if it's illegal take further action), or if the person is being overly offensive (but then it's up to the offendee to complain first).
Thanks.
Christian I agree wholeheartedly. However, the problem we have here is that most of the time the "offendee" is the Moderator, the people who have recently been banned rarely, if ever, make comments against other members.
Surely, if the Moderator is the offended party then the matter should be dealt with by the other moderators of whom we see or hear little from at such times.
This Messageboard is akin to the boards established by the various manufacturers, the difference being that those are generally not moderated. Subscribers are free to make any comments they wish. Nobody takes offence because it's all done on a non-personal level.
You will always have clashes of personality, it's human nature and thank goodness we'll always have differences of opinion because without those we'd all end up like mushrooms.
I believe that if this board (except the CV Magazine section) was unmoderated the recent problems would disappear and Mr Crabtree would have his workload lifted dramatically.
As one who has previously fallen foul of Beethoven's 'experience' I have to say I find the majority of his posts either ignorant, arrogant or just downright mischievous.
Now this may offend some but I would take much pleasure in knowing he had been FORCIBLY evicted. I don't normally bear a grudge but for him I'll make an exception.
There seems to be ample support for the others and Barry makes a good point with his Churchillian (I think!) quote about defending others rights to a different viewpoint.
Martin
Both Pinnacles and Matrox's web-boards are moderated and in Pinnacles case speaking out against the company get messages censured and/or people banned.
Matrox have been known to do the same (i’m sure chirpy will confirm.)
Those boards were set up to give a knowledge base for one manufacturers set of merchandise, unlike dvdoctor’s which covers everything.
An un-moderated board run by anyone is asking for problems.
If that is really what you want then watch as the board collapses when no-one wants to participate in a free-for-all.
As far as I am concerned we all have to follow whatever rules are set up by the message board’s owner, in this board’s case dvdoctor or his appointed moderators.
If you don’t like the rules, or the way the board runs, then leave or live with it.
Let me put it another way.
Imagine you own a dog which attacked six people; in each case the people attacked defended themselves the best they could.
Who do you put down, the six people attacked, or the dog?
The problems with the BBs is the anonimty, and the fact that we hardly know each other.
I've had attacks launched at myself because people get in a strop. As I've said before though, if it were in real life, most would probably be more civilised as I'd probably break their nose in real life, given the dressings down some have tried.
I like heated and intelligent debates, and the odd 'so ner' is acceptable, but people constantly jibing is just a plain irritance, and the only muscle you can show on this board is by being banned.
Bob doesn't just wake up in the morning and think 'oh, I'll ban some one today, I'm in a bad mood'. You've got to have said something out of line, or been uncivilised in some manner. Sometimes there are misunderstandings, and in most cases they are resolved. But, when you're constantly at it, Bob will notice, and then there will only be so much he can take. Even if it's not blatant, like sarcasm, bad advice, being pompous, all the things that you would find socially unacceptable in the real world, you will be reprimanded, or dressed down.
It's not big and it's not clever.
Bob, I'd say ban nobody for now. If anybody starts off again, they've had their warnings.
Eddie, I'd stop flicking the dogs nose mate, cos it'll bit your arm off. Just leave it alone, and contribute in a sensible manner, and then no body has anything to grumble about - simple
Tim
Eddie, don't confuse cause and effect. In your example, the dog is the cause, the retaliation is the effect. Removal of the cause is always the best course of action.
Tim, I'm 100% with what you've just said. I don't like banning anyone, but warnings given by moderators should be heeded. This is a place where questions asked are answered, usually correctly, and most often in a friendly manner. Get stroppy and you can expect to be reprimanded. Stay stroppy and you can expect to get kicked out.
quote:Originally posted by Alan Roberts at work:
Eddie, don't confuse cause and effect. In your example, the dog is the cause, the retaliation is the effect. Removal of the cause is always the best course of action.
Alan, exactly my point. mhP and Barry Hunter have both been on the receiving end of unprovoked attacks from the main moderator in the form of sarcastic and belittling comments but everybody seems to be happy to ignore this fact. It is THEY that have retaliated and this is all well documented.
I myself have been accused by the main moderator of being "ignorant" and "rude" further up this very thread and threatened with being barred by public debate.
Mike, oops sorry Eddie please calm down.
Regards
John
when i first jioned this forum i found it to be a very helpfull and friendly place as other forums i looked at seemed to have hundred of rules on what you could do and what you coudnt do but this one seemed to look after itself with the moderator stepping in every now and then,and lately ive had some great help from this forum of poeple ,but lately it seems there is a lot of petty bickering going on which is a shame as it gets in the way of helpfull advice now dont get me wrong i will argue with the rest of you but its getting tireing listening to the same poeple argue over stuff thats in the scheme of things doesnt matter.who cares if poeple ask the same question is it going to hurt to reply with a simple post explaining about searching the board or as lots of poeple have said...ignore it.some poeple cant help but be elitest morons thats something we'll allways have to accept.
the great thing about the internet is that lots of poeple from all walks of life can come togeher and share knowledge and advice and also have some fun(as in the chatter forum)so you have to except that some poeple arent as fast on the uptake as others and maybe they cant spell as well as some one else but does it matter?shareing knowledge is a great thing and i myself have learnt an awfull lot from poeple out there so why dont we all just chill out a bit.
as for bannig poeple i dont know about that where does it end you ban someone for this for that youll end up with nobody here.
well if ive repeated anything that poeple have said then i'm sorry in advance.
....fight the power.....
.........love peace.........
.........keep it clean.......
quote:Originally posted by simonphw:
maybe they cant spell as well as some one else but does it matter?.
Simon.
Poor spelling is not a hanging offence but postings that just run on without any punctuation or capitals can be extremely difficult to read.
Rightly or wrongly, those questions that can be easily understood will tend to receive more help.
------------------
Regards
Keith
heh
Keith, I'm with you on that one. If I can read a question easily, I stand a chance of answering it. If it's hard to read, I usually ignore it, I haven't the time to spend reading a message several times to see if I've got the poster's problem properly sorted out.
Punctuation, capitalisation, and white space make it far easier to read.
At the risk of being flamed and kicked off, does anybody know a forum where the rules are more relaxed than here and where the smallest mistakes are not pounced on and blown up in to a larger conversation than the actual post was for?
not to start another argument but some people are not very good at basic english be it spelling or grammer,some people may also suffer with dxslexia(a very hard word to spell)i understand that sometimes it may be hard to read but its not that diffucult,but it is up to the person reading it if they want to reply, that is there choice.
like i say i dont want to start an argument about who can write well and who cant(that was bad english i'm sure)
simonphw
Simon, I'm not arguing with you at all, just stating what I reckon is obvious, that the easier the question is to read, the more likely it is to attract an answer. That's all.
Bob,
What's the story?
Have they been culled or not?
If not, can we have your rationale?
Did we, the jury, sway your decision?
As they say in Private Eye, "I think we should be told".
Thanks, Alan.
PS Delighted to read good reviews about Pinnacle products in the July mag - and I thought that you were prejudiced!!!!
I`ve still got plenty to learn. Most of the people who answer my queries get it right for me. As a relative newby to the Mac
scene and some of the progs that I intend to stay using, I can`t do without the help of forum nods.
However, I recognise unwarranted vitriolic patter from posters and always feel for the intended recipient. It seems to be normal for some of the "lesser" types to resort to bad taste stuff when the art of eloquence in the subject matter can`t be found. Pity. I use the word "lesser" in relaltion to the offending person`s inability to deal with good and fair comment - or even to not be able to accept badly worded criticism........
Perhaps a friendly rebuke and reminder of the need for good manners would be the best way out of the situation.
A further breaking of the good manners code or ignoring of the friendly reprimand could be the deciding factor in banning.
Ron.
Apologies - I'd been testing this account on behalf of Ted and my browser locked onto his settings without me realising!
Bob C
>Have they been culled or not?
No
> If not, can we have your rationale?
> Did we, the jury, sway your decision?
Yes
> PS Delighted to read good reviews about
> Pinnacle products in the July mag - and I
> thought that you were prejudiced!!!!
Clearly you have not been reading the mag of late. Pinnacle has had a LOT of high-scoring reviews, including a number of cover stories.
Indeed, I have received various emails suggesting that we are heavily biased TOWARDS Pinnacle!
As long as we have some people who think we are biased towards a particular brand and other who think we are biased against it, I'm happy, cos clearly, any bias there is, is in their minds, not in the magazine.
Cheers
Bob
[This message has been edited by bcrabtree (edited 27 June 2002).]
alun
i agree that a question that is easier to read might get more answers and as i said it is up to you if you want to answer a question i am not looking for an argument.
i think part of the problem is that for a long time things like computers and video cameras and edit suites where only avalible to people in the industry or with lots of money but now you get all walks of life useing cameras and they may have some editing software on there pc and thats the problem its not as eliteist as it used to be and ,sometimes not allways, the experts resnent it.
we all have to start somewhere.
know there are a lot of friendly poeple on this forum and compared to others i've looked at its very laidback which is what i allways liked about it.
love and peace
Bob,
">Have they been culled or not?
No
> Did we, the jury, sway your decision?
Yes "
>>>>> In my opinion, a good decision! - But not a lot of rationale given.
"> PS Delighted to read good reviews about
> Pinnacle products in the July mag - and I
> thought that you were prejudiced!!!!
Clearly you have not been reading the mag of late. Pinnacle has had a LOT of high-scoring reviews, including a number of cover stories."
>>>>>If I've not been reading the mag, I wonder why I've been buying it for the past 4 years?
As a final word which you may care to ponder, can I suggest that you think back to the days when you were in a retail environment selling microwaves etc, as you told us a few (many?) months ago in your "Opening scream",
The customer is not always right, but the customer is always the customer and can choose to go elsewhere.
There is always merit in losing gracefully.
quote:Originally posted by simonphw:
aluni think part of the problem is that ..... edit suites where only avalible to people in the industry or with lots of money ...... and thats the problem its not as eliteist as it used to be and ,sometimes not allways, the experts resnent it.
Simonphw. I hope you'll forgive me only using bits of your post in the reply but I don't think I've changed the meaning of what you are saying.
In all walks of life you will get people who resent the 'Amateur' getting hands on what they feel should be their private territory. I don't believe that was the reason for the negative reactions to Beethoven's posts. He seemed to delight in simply arguing for the sake of it and with pretty poor arguments most of the time.
The shame is that this made people ignore any valid comments he did make.
I am certainly no expert on video editing and have learnt a huge amount on these boards. The detailed answers have probably mostly come from people in the business in one way or another and they obviously and thankfully don't mind helping out beginners.
Long may that last.
------------------
Regards
Keith
This is one of the very few boards where I actually learn. It also helps me come to buying decisions.The board is not affiliated to any one product or person therefore, If something is crap or what a person says is crap then this is the way it should go. You punish the comment not the person who made it. I know I have seen red and blasted away at the wrong person and made myself look an idiot. The comments were made in haste and repented, just as quick.
Many who contribute to this board are in effect teachers. Teachers by and large take the odd jibe in thier stride and get on with life. I pity those who feel knowledge is so precious that they can`t bear to part with it.If I know the answer then I am quite happy to share it.
Speaking for myself, I'm delighted to answer questions from beginners. Professionally I have to answer questions from experts and I tend to pitch at the expert level, that's what I'm paid for. But when a beginner asks questions, I know I've got to tread carefully and introduce topics in a reasoned order and with minimal tangential excursions into blind alleys. If I can get a beginner to understand how something works, then I've proved that I understand it as well. And that's mightily useful to me. I get as much out of all this as I put in, and I really don't resent any of it.
As a (long) retired teacher, I can relate to John A.V.s last paragraph, and also to AR at Work's comments.
One minor niggle though, the number of helpful replies which elicit no response from the questioner. It would be nice to know whether one's suggestion solved the problem.
To be fair, I leave my email address open and sometimes the dialogue continues off the board. The advantage of confirmation of a solution appearing on the board is its availability to others.
hello keitht
i agree with you completey,i was more makeing a point that sometimes it feels like that,negative answers dont help anyone.
also i can honestly say that i woudnt know half the stuff i now know if it wasnt for this forum and the poeple who help with the many answers that sometimes you need answered.
simonphw
quote:Originally posted by alan wells:
Bob,">
"> PS Delighted to read good reviews about
> Pinnacle products in the July mag - and I
> thought that you were prejudiced!!!!Clearly you have not been reading the mag of late. Pinnacle has had a LOT of high-scoring reviews, including a number of cover stories."
>>>>>If I've not been reading the mag, I wonder why I've been buying it for the past 4 years?
As a final word which you may care to ponder, can I suggest that you think back to the days when you were in a retail environment selling microwaves etc, as you told us a few (many?) months ago in your "Opening scream",
The customer is not always right, but the customer is always the customer and can choose to go elsewhere.
There is always merit in losing gracefully.
Alan,
How can you have been reading the magazine and come up with a statement like the one you originally made about me/CV being biased against Pinnacle?
Let's start with Feb 2002, Pinnacle Commotion. It was on the cover, it was the lead review, it scored 90% and it got a Recommended award.
March 2002 - Pinnacle Studio DVclip was on the cover, it was the lead review, it scored 90% and it got Editor's Choice and Good Value awards.
May 2002 - Pinnacle Studio Deluxe was on the cover, it was the lead review, it scored 90% and it got Editor's Choice and Innovation awards.
June 2002 - Pinnacle Pro-ONE revisited. The Pro-ONE (in its SECOND review) score 85%.
DVD supplement with that issue, had a summary of our Dec 2001 review, and original and summary were both very positive, but also pointed out shortcomings.
The supplement also had was was, in effect, a full-page preview of the review of Pinnacle Impression DVD 2.2 that appears in our July issue. Again, very positive, but pointing out, as always, any shortcomings we see.
If looking at those recent recent issues, you'd come to the conclusion that we were biased in favour of Pinnacle (or deeply in Pinnacle's pocket), then a comment along such lines would have almost have been understandable - though I'd then have given you chapter and verse of all the many times we've given Pinnacle a kicking.
But for you to conclude that we are biased against Pinnacle when there is that very recent backlog of VERY positive reviews indicates what I said, but you deny - that you've not been reading the magazine recently.
The only alternative is that you had an irrational belief that we are biased against Pinnacle.
I prefer to think you just hadn't been reading the mags - which is what I said originally.
As for your comments about customers - I think you completely misunderstand the purpose of this board, my role, and the position of those who frequent this place.
I have created the board and invited people to participate.
The FULL cost of the board is met by the DVdoctor organisation.
The publisher of Computer Video magazine makes no contribution to the running of these boards and pays me NOTHING for my participation. DVdoctor pays me nothing either. Indeed, no one pays me a penny for anything I do in relation to this board.
In all the years that I have been running this board and its forerunners, I have probably never posted more than 50 messages from work (I think it will actually be a lot less than 50 messages).
Normally, I only access the boards from home, in my own time and at my own expense - no one pays the cost of my phone line or ISP.
No one here is a customer.
What everyone is, though, is something that is more akin to a houseguest.
And everyone is very welcome as long as they behave with dignity and without giving offence.
As for my being a bad loser, that's plain daft.
What I said at the outset was this,
==========
So, what say you people, do I cull Barry and Eddie?
Cos, in my view, with them gone, that would be all of the ignorant, rude folk gone.
Say if you want to keep them in, though, cos the deed will be done by the end of the weekend unless I see some support for them staying around.
=================
That was what I said, and I simply do not know how on earth can you possibly construe my NOT culling people as "losing" when, clearly, any decision I took was going to be predicated on what people said in response to my original posting.
Bob C
[This message has been edited by bcrabtree (edited 29 June 2002).]
I think part of the problem stems from the fact that having threatened to "Cull" myself & Eddie Edwards by the weekend, and given that the response from the members was mostly in favour of not culling us, you failed to post your decision, and have not done so until 6 days after the deadline!
Had you posted on the Monday, it is my opinion that the membership would have percieved you as being fair.
Barry Hunter
Videos for all Occasions
quote:Originally posted by Barry Hunter:
Had you posted on the Monday, it is my opinion that the membership would have percieved you as being fair.
I don't perceive anything as having been unfair. My thoughts are quite the opposite bearing in mind that most people around here firmly believe that Eddie is indeed the very banned mhP/Mike Henson/Nonsensekim.
I don't think it will be too long before he shows his true colours again and adds another banned name to the growing list.
SIFI
SIFI
My previous post was directed to BC!
You are entitled to your opinion as is everyone else.
The possible banning was directed at myself & Eddie Edwards, yet in your prevous post you only refer to Eddie Edwards!
As it seems that you have appointed your self to replying on BC`s behalf, perhaps you would answer for him as to why he chose not to make his decision public!
Barry Hunter
Videos for all Occasions
quote:Originally posted by Barry Hunter:
My previous post was directed to BC!
If it was only for the attention of Bob and not for anyone to respond to then you should have sent a private e mail.
quote:
You are entitled to your opinion as is everyone else.
Why thankyou!
I only mentioned Eddie because as per my previous posting I believe he should have been banned and you should not.
Funnily enough I have supported your continued inclusion.
As for answering for Bob, I wasn't. I was merely giving my opinion which is something that even you have admitted that I am entitled to.
You are clearly going up against anyone who supports anything to do with his side of the argument. I think he has been very fair in allowing Eddie to stay and as I have said I believe he was wrong to consider barring you.
SIFI
[This message has been edited by SIFI (edited 30 June 2002).]
quote:Originally posted by Barry Hunter:
SIFIMy previous post was directed to BC!
You are entitled to your opinion as is everyone else.
The possible banning was directed at myself & Eddie Edwards, yet in your prevous post you only refer to Eddie Edwards!
As it seems that you have appointed your self to replying on BC`s behalf, perhaps you would answer for him as to why he chose not to make his decision public!
Barry Hunter
Videos for all Occasions
you are still here.
therefore you weren't banned , because people stood up for you.
so stop complaining , you got what you thought you deserved , although this continued attack makes me wonder why i said anything to keep you here.
quote:Originally posted by Barry Hunter:
Had you posted on the Monday, it is my opinion that the membership would have percieved you as being fair.
Just as an aside, you clearly feel you can speak for myself and all other members by indicating the membership feels Bob has been unfair.
If that doesn't give me and anyone else the right to respond to your remarks I am not sure what does.
SIFI
quote:Originally posted by Barry Hunter:
SIFIMy previous post was directed to BC!
Barry, you should know by now that this in "Pantoland" - whenever anyone as much as mentions Baron Hardup it's guaranteed to bring one, but usually both (safety in numbers) of his henchmen out from under a rock!
For the record I have never posted anything derogatory to this board but I seem to be guilty by association.
I have never attempted to hide my links to mhP for whom I have the greatest respect because he stands up for what he believes is right, and, if you'd care to check, you will also find that he has never attempted to hide his identity - anyone who thinks spelling your name backwards is a serious attempt at concealment probably still reads "The Beano".
Eddie,
I assume when referring to Baron Hardup you actually mean Bob.
If you scroll back through my records you will see that I am no henchman to him, but rather someone who says what he thinks. The upshot of that was myself being barred on one occasion which resulted in a pretty furious row.
If I thought Bob was wrong I would say so. I did say he was wrong to ban Barry which is something that I still believe to be true even though we have our differences.
Your argument all along is formulated on the basis of free speech. If you disagree with something then stand up and let your opinion be known.
The problem with your argument is that you only like it when it is free speech aimed at Bob and if anyone dare to take his side you believe them to be an arse licking henchman.
If you really believe what you are saying then you are incredibly narrow sighted.
I am working on the same basis as yourself. If I believe someone has said something to be completely wrong I will tell them whether it is you, Bob or anyone else. Your problem is that it is only Bob that you attack or anyone who takes his side of the argument.
It is time this argument was put to bed. if Bob has made his final decision then lets all get on with what this board is supposed to be for.
Bob, if you are listening can you please post your final verdict on this sorry situation and close the damned thread.
SIFI
Eddie,
>>Thank you for acknowledging that I do have an identity.
I assume when referring to Baron Hardup you actually mean Bob.
>>From his postings regarding cheap B&B accommodation in Cornwall and cheap train fares to Bradford it seemed ironically appropriate.
If you scroll back through my records you will see that I am no henchman to him, but rather someone who says what he thinks. The upshot of that was myself being barred on one occasion which resulted in a pretty furious row.
>>Then I would have thought the experience might have broadened your horizons and made you more aware of the plight and the feelings of others.
If I thought Bob was wrong I would say so. I did say he was wrong to ban Barry which is something that I still believe to be true even though we have our differences.
>>So by ommission you think that I should be banned? Perhaps you'd like to share with me, and the rest of this board, your justification for such a decision?
Your argument all along is formulated on the basis of free speech. If you disagree with something then stand up and let your opinion be known.
>>"My" arguement, "my" arguement, what arguement, I didn't have an arguement until I suddenly found that I, along with Barry Hunter, was the subject of a witchhunt which was being led by Mr Crabtree who is supposed to be the Moderator of this board aided and abetted by a small number of what can only be politely described as "followers"; maybe if you ignored postings that aren't aimed directly at you then the threads would simply die and the posters lose interest.
The problem with your argument is that you only like it when it is free speech aimed at Bob and if anyone dare to take his side you believe them to be an arse licking henchman.
>>If the cap fits?
If you really believe what you are saying then you are incredibly narrow sighted.
>>You mean that this is all a nightmare and that I'm not the victim of a witchhunt?
I am working on the same basis as yourself. If I believe someone has said something to be completely wrong I will tell them whether it is you, Bob or anyone else.
>>I disgree. Mind your own business is my motto. If it's not aimed at you, ignore it.
Your problem is that it is only Bob that you attack or anyone who takes his side of the argument.
>>SiFi, I demand an apology for that. Show me where I've attacked Bob Crabtree. Direct me to one of my postings where I've made any derogatory comments about Mr Crabtree BEFORE he threatened to bar me!
Just commenting to bring this back up into view so that everybody can see that I'm still awaiting and apology
well i can find a previous time when you decided to take a poke at bob.
http://www.dvdoctor.net/cgi-bin/ubb/Forum8/HTML/001523.html
so what was that about 'not before he threatened to ban you' ?
I'm closing this thread, so don't hold your breath.
Oh, and Eddie/MH whoever you are, irrespective of ANYTHING else, if you start stirring again, ever, you are gone.
No reply necessary.
Bob C
quote:Originally posted by Eddie Edwardes:
Just commenting to bring this back up into view so that everybody can see that I'm still awaiting and apology