If you're editing HDV and your're downconverting to make DVDs the 'being able to crop' is a blessing, but Edius will only crop and zoom, it won't allow tilted horizons to be corrected as far as I can see. Are there programs out there that will allow this? Maybe Mercalli has it in its power.
tom.
Hi
Since the maths of incremental rotation is an order of magnitude more simple complex than cropping if resolution isn't to be lost, this is usually best done in something like After Effects which has the necessary image-manipulation engine.
So any freeware you are pointed to needs to be assessed for quality maintenance ;)
Spot on, slight zooms and non-orthogonal rotations are extremely difficult to do well. I can supply test signals if you want to know just how appallingly bad your favourite software is :D
I know - Premiere can do it but the loss of resolution is frightening.
Can you not make a p-i-p and tilt that to your taste before applying your crop? Or am I missing something?
Tom
Before writing this I've just double-checked and both Edius v5 (and earlier too IIRK) and Vegas v8 (and earlier) can do frame rotation.
As drgagx has said, in Edius use the picture-in-picture feature - but it has to be the '3D Picture in Picture' as found in the 'Keyers' effects folder.
In Vegas simply use the event pan and crop tool.
It's fully key-frameable in both packages although as has been said you might like to test whether the quality of the results meets your requirements.
HTH NL
After using Virtual Dub the last few days to correct some tilted shots than can't be re-taken without another trip to Madeira, I just want to tell you guys I am astounded yet again by this free app, it does this rotation task better than anything else, and that's including After Effects, by a simply HUGE margin.
The reason is that it has the all important option to use Lanczos3 for scaling and rotating.
So if you attempt to straighten some tilted shots in your NLE then need to scale up to hide the black edges but don't want to suffer that soft blurry look you have just given it, use Virtual Dub instead to pre-process the clip.
S'right. Edius does it well but VirtualDub does it as near right as is possible without disposing of an arm and a leg.
In addition to tilt correction I've also been using Deshaker to stabilise some hand held footage as I was not able to get my tripod everywhere on the island (it's so steep everywhere).
'Deshaker' is a free plug-in for Virtual Dub. I never used it before, I found Mercalli to be a let down which put me off any more attempts to stabilise footage and anyway I almost always used my tripods. I actually preferred jumpy footage if was sharp and clear in preference to stabilised steady but soft images.
I can honestly state that Deshaker in a different league. It took a few days to work out how to get the best from it as there are some things to learn but the quality result was a revelation.
Deshaker runs two passes, the first one does the stabilising including rotation and zoom while in the second pass there are border options with options on the scaling algorithm to be used. I was a little let down at this point since Bicubic was the best on offer, as good as it gets for example in After Effects, but ok, I decided to just forgo the border options that force a scale up and instead let the process terminate. Then I used VDub's own Lanczos3 resize filter to do the necessary cropping and scaling.
I have to say the end result of using Deshaker with VDub's resize, while a bit time taking, seems like pure magic.
After using Virtual Dub the last few days to correct some tilted shots than can't be re-taken without another trip to Madeira, I just want to tell you guys I am astounded yet again by this free app, it does this rotation task better than anything else, and that's including After Effects, by a simply HUGE margin.The reason is that it has the all important option to use Lanczos3 for scaling and rotating.
So if you attempt to straighten some tilted shots in your NLE then need to scale up to hide the black edges but don't want to suffer that soft blurry look you have just given it, use Virtual Dub instead to pre-process the clip.
Got some interesting footage I shot in Madeira 2 weeks after the floods :-)
Got some interesting footage I shot in Madeira 2 weeks after the floods :-)
Would that be 2 weeks after the flooding on the day the QE2 arrived by any chance Barry? The day I got soaked?
I think the only ship that I saw was a costa one! you know, the cruise line that we went on for our 40th & got stuck on a mudbank on the Mekong Delta for 10 hrs going into Saigon!
We were in Madeira from 8-22nd March, quite an amazing sight (work site :-) ) & boy didn`t they work hard to clear up the absolutely immense mess left by the floods!
This 'straighten the horizon' in post processing is something I - ah - need to do fairly often. I have an excuse, honest, and it's because I often find myself filming with my camera held high above my head - as I look up into the tilted down top screen.
So I've been looking for a little stick-on LED spirit level that I can fit to the back end of the NX5. It needs to be as compact as possible (7dayshop's is too big) and I was wondering what you people use.
I found the Z7's on-screen horizon indicator too little, too late, and I need some changing colour LEDs to easily catch my eye.
tom.
The spirit level from Keene is compact (about 10x10x20mm) but not sure how you're going to see it if you've got the camera above your head?
---
Edit: Just noticed you said "LED spirit level". Oh well... it's overpriced anyway!
Yes, I've tried the bubble level - useless. Doesn't shout loud enough.
Certainly is overpriced, I bought one of those from here for only £3.95 plus 99p postage.
I think the only ship that I saw was a costa one! you know, the cruise line that we went on for our 40th & got stuck on a mudbank on the Mekong Delta for 10 hrs going into Saigon!We were in Madeira from 8-22nd March, quite an amazing sight (work site :-) ) & boy didn`t they work hard to clear up the absolutely immense mess left by the floods!
You mean the first flood of 2010, nasty... the flood I got caught in while in Funchal on the 21st October this year was I suppose a "mini flood" in comparison but a bit scary at times. Not many of the passengers on the QE2 got off the ship as all their trips to the town were cancelled. One passenger's account of the day is here.
I was going to upload a photo here but cannot see how to do it even though the FAQ says it's possible.
You can only upload photos to this forum if they're stored on line (not simply on your pc). The huge extra hassle iinvolved has stopped me uploading tens of demo photos, so I suppose there's method in the programmer's madness.
Yes, I've tried the bubble level - useless. Doesn't shout loud enough.
Hi Tom
Does this one shout loudly enough?
I've not tried one so can't say what it's like but at that price might be worth a look :) .
Best of luck, NL
Seculine Action level looks very small.....
...click on 'more images' on this website to see the size...
http://www.calumetphoto.co.uk/item/315-635P/
....not seen one of these myself so not a recommendation... (I tend to work with a "bubble" level in the accessory shoe)
dave
Thanks Dave - I've seen the same thing here for a tenner cheaper.
http://www.bristolcameras.co.uk/p-seculine-action-level-digital-spirit-level.htm
FYI: Edius 6 now has rotation in the Layout tool. Layout tool is now 3D too.
Tom, did you look at Nigel's link in *21 on previous page? That's the same one but a lot cheaper.
Peter
What does that mean - layout tool is now 3D too? We'll all have to reappraise our vocabulary now that 3D stereo filming and editing is here.
Thanks Peter, but my Nr 13 post had already pointed out that 7day shop's was too big, and I was looking for something more compact. Something that runs off one silver-oxide cell, say.
Thanks Peter, but my Nr 13 post had already pointed out that 7day shop's was too big, and I was looking for something more compact. Something that runs off one silver-oxide cell, say.
Whoops - sorry Tom - missed that earlier reference. That's the trouble with these threads and a quick glance :rolleyes: .
What does that mean - layout tool is now 3D too? We'll all have to reappraise our vocabulary now that 3D stereo filming and editing is here.
I believe the 3D referred to here is not so much of the stereoscopic vision variety but more to do with the fact that you can move the plane of the image in 3-dimensional space. Being able to do this, for example, allows you to give the image a perspective appearance with converging edges.
FWIW I did mention a way of correcting non-level horizons in Edius 5 way back in post #6.
Anyway good luck with your search, NL
It will be interesting to see if Edius 6 does a better job of image rotation than the PiP used in v5. Anyone know if this is so? I'm still debating if the v6 upgrade is worth the money.
Tom, I'll let you know when I go up to Edius6.
SNIPFWIW I did mention a way of correcting non-level horizons in Edius 5 way back in post #6.
SNIP NL
Unfortunately rotation in Edius 5 using 3D Picture in Picture causes bad image degradation, I think this tool is prehistoric, zooming in is also bad. Tom you won't like it unless you are viewing the result on your grannies 14" portable crt tv from the other side of the room.
The Layout tool in EDIUS 6 is better quality than the PIP in EDIUS 5. If using HDV footage on an SD timeline the resolution is not thrown away like in the PIP effect.
If you're editing HDV and your're downconverting to make DVDs the 'being able to crop' is a blessing, but Edius will only crop and zoom, it won't allow tilted horizons to be corrected as far as I can see. Are there programs out there that will allow this? Maybe Mercalli has it in its power.tom.
If anyone has Edius 6 with it's the new layout tool I'd be interested to know how good or bad it is at rotation with 1920 x 1080 HD.
Note, don't bother looking at a small preview on a computer screen, you need to view via NX or Spark on a proper display to see what's really happening after rotation. If your rotation method is simply "nearest neighbour" it will have gone soft and fuzzy, if it's "Bilinear" it will be as good as After Effects (which is not good at all actually) and it it's "Bicubic" you are in luck as it will be pretty good but personally I doubt Edius is using anything more than nearest neighbour in Edius 5 and I don't know what it uses in Edius 6.
For myself I don't intend upgrading from version 5.51 any time soon for various reasons, not the least of which is no drivers yet for my Canopus NX cards but anyway I doubt rotation is nearly as good as the free "Key Motion" plugin for VirtualDub that I came across recently. It has two very important features...
1) Allows keyframing so can correct footage that suffers from random tilting.
2) Options include (among others) high quality Lanczos!
http://www.hv20.com/showthread.php?34723-Key-Motion-VirtualDub-plugin
I have been using this with footage from my EX1R where I was forced to go hand held and I got tired quite quickly.:o
After exporting as HQ AVI for VDub, I firstly used the Deshaker plugin to make it look as if I had in fact used a tripod, then I added the Key Motion plugin which fixed the tilting nicely and importantly with no visible loss in resolution using the Lanzcos mode.
It was quite easy to see there was virtually no loss in quality by simply toggling tracks between the two in Edius, while previewing to my HDTV.
So that's another good tool added to the arsenal here :D
The only sensible scaling filter to use for video is Lanczos3, and a little bird told me a while ago that Edius now uses it in 6. But I can't be sure yet as I'm still on 5. It's far better than any of the commerclal alternatives (it's perfectly possible to write better filters, but they cost a lot more to implement)
I`ve got Edius 6 & HD Spark feeding an LG 22" HDMI monitor. As I`m very new to the interface I`m struggling a bit with it but I did rescale some AVCHD footage I shot recently in India & viewing it on the LG it looked pretty good but whether it`s an improvement on previous versions is difficult for me to assess!
Bullshit alert, Faulty Memory Syndrome again. Sorry chaps, Edius 6 doesn't use Lanczos3 for this filtering. It's pretty good, but not there yet.